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Rdnckgirl1973
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 12:27 pm |
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I have been reading that Bush has vowed to finish the fence between the us and Mexico. I am glad that we are at least doing something to stop illegal immigration, but still feel like we are not doing enough. I have nothing against anyone who comes over to the USA to pursue a better life or dream as long as they follow OUR LAWS and stay here legal.
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Deaglos
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 12:31 pm |
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| dont forget speak and read english.
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Rdnckgirl1973
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 12:33 pm |
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Deaglos wrote: dont forget speak and read english.
I think that is a requirement to become a citizen of the US!
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hazygray
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 12:42 pm |
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Deaglos wrote: dont forget speak and read english.
 " nuff said
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coolhead64
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 03:02 pm |
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Rdnckgirl1973 wrote: Deaglos wrote: dont forget speak and read english.
I think that is a requirement to become a citizen of the US!
really, coulda fooled me.
Ive I owned that property, i wouldnt be fighting this fence like some of the property owners are, id tell them to build it DOUBLE high on my land.
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FOC
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 03:30 pm |
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Let's not forget though, that you can go around the fence Bush vowed to build. Yes it's a start but it's about a fourth as long as it needs to be.
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WyattEarp32
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 04:22 pm |
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Do ya know whjat would be funny, Make the fence any electric fence.....Come to think of it who would pay that kind of power bill? Nevermind.....WE WOULD...
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exterran
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 04:45 pm |
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One of the reasons people come here illegally is that there is far too much red tape, financial cost and waiting to do it legally. I do think we need the illegals out, but we also should take a look at some of the things which are causing the problem in the first place:
- How hard it actually is to legally become a US Citizen
- Some jobs here, local, legally present folks will not fill
- Farm jobs which farmers cannot afford more than minimum wages without raising the costs of their produce
- Construction jobs where wages must be low to prevent cost overrun
- States providing resources to illegal immigrants without requiring them to become legal as a condition for receiving the help.
- Last time I checked, if Mom and Dad are illegals, and Jr. is born here, Jr. is legal. What becomes the cost of sending Mom and Dad back vs making them legal?
- Who gets Jr. if Mom and Dad go back?
- Does Jr. get taught English?
- What are the states and fed doing to teach these folks English as a condition for offering them help, food stamps, drivers' licenses, etc.
I'm not against the fence at all ... I just see the fence as a step to solve larger issues. I also believe we should be thinking of the larger issues because sooner or later, we must be prepared to deal with them.
"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it." - Albert Einstein
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Tex
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 05:50 pm |
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The answer is simple, however all politicians fear the results. Either way they go there will be effects on the economy and backlash from the rest of the world.
1. Build a fence, build it high, build it deep, build it double with a road in the center with armed border control agents patrolling it. Build it from one end of the border to the other end.
2. Eradicate the 14th Amendment allowing people that are born within our borders to be citizens. Dissolve the citizenship of illegals children for the past 10 years. They must return to Old Mexico, China, Korea, Haiti or wherever they are from with their parents.
3. A national ID must be mandatory for health-care and education. Do not withhold emergency treatment but it can only be in life threatening situations. Ear-aches, etc. are turned away. Get them out of our schools.
4. Incorporate a system similar to Canada's for immigration. We must need you, you must not be a criminal and you must await investigation.
5. Fine employers caught using illegal labor. On multiple violators, strip their business license after they have been caught 3 times.
If you take away health-care, employment and education they will deport themselves. Case closed.
We are not the world's welfare office!
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Deaglos
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 06:13 pm |
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Tex wrote: The answer is simple, however all politicians fear the results. Either way they go there will be effects on the economy and backlash from the rest of the world.
1. Build a fence, build it high, build it deep, build it double with a road in the center with armed border control agents patrolling it. Build it from one end of the border to the other end.
2. Eradicate the 14th Amendment allowing people that are born within our borders to be citizens. Dissolve the citizenship of illegals children for the past 10 years. They must return to Old Mexico, China, Korea, Haiti or wherever they are from with their parents.
3. A national ID must be mandatory for health-care and education. Do not withhold emergency treatment but it can only be in life threatening situations. Ear-aches, etc. are turned away. Get them out of our schools.
4. Incorporate a system similar to Canada's for immigration. We must need you, you must not be a criminal and you must await investigation.
5. Fine employers caught using illegal labor. On multiple violators, strip their business license after they have been caught 3 times.
If you take away health-care, employment and education they will deport themselves. Case closed.
We are not the world's welfare office!
Yup build that wall, and goto national id hell it worked good for germany! Didnt it?
Attachment: b_mur3.jpg (Downloaded 62 times)
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mother of 2
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 06:21 pm |
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Tex wrote: The answer is simple, however all politicians fear the results. Either way they go there will be effects on the economy and backlash from the rest of the world.
1. Build a fence, build it high, build it deep, build it double with a road in the center with armed border control agents patrolling it. Build it from one end of the border to the other end.
2. Eradicate the 14th Amendment allowing people that are born within our borders to be citizens. Dissolve the citizenship of illegals children for the past 10 years. They must return to Old Mexico, China, Korea, Haiti or wherever they are from with their parents.
3. A national ID must be mandatory for health-care and education. Do not withhold emergency treatment but it can only be in life threatening situations. Ear-aches, etc. are turned away. Get them out of our schools.
4. Incorporate a system similar to Canada's for immigration. We must need you, you must not be a criminal and you must await investigation.
5. Fine employers caught using illegal labor. On multiple violators, strip their business license after they have been caught 3 times.
If you take away health-care, employment and education they will deport themselves. Case closed.
We are not the world's welfare office!
I could not agree with you more!!!!!!!
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Tex
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 06:35 pm |
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Deaglos wrote:
Yup build that wall, and goto national id hell it worked good for germany! Didnt it?
C'mon Deaglos, you know that was for a different reason. That wall was built not only to keep people out, it was also to keep people in. We can't keep incorporating all the citizens of the world into our country.
This country was built on immigration 150-200 years ago. That does not mean that is an effective way to continue running our country. When our forefathers built this country they knew the time would come that their visions would be beyond what they could imagine. That is why they incorporated Amendmants into our framework.
It is one thing if a immigrant wants to come here to assimilate into our culture and way of life, it is another when they want to come here, take all they can and try to force us to assimilate to their culture. Deaglos my friend take a strong look at what has been happening in California. These pictures are from a high school in California. They want our country to become Mexico.
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Spice
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 06:35 pm |
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I agree with Sam....er...Tex. There is a legal way to come to this country and millions of people have done it for years. We have people from Asian countries who have come here on visa and overstayed their visas making them illegal, we have people from Mexico (you know the ones who have traveled across the desert just to make a better life for their family) who have paid as much as $8000 to coyotes to bring them here illegally, and they are the ones saying they can't feed their families in their country. $8000 should feed a family for quite a while in Mexico, Guatemala, etc. The difference is, those countries do not offer benefits like welfare and health care to support them so they can sock the money into their bank account. By coming illegally, they reap all the benefits and send their earnings back to their country, some $35 billion dollars the first quarter of this year.
We have illegal aliens from more than 32 different countries, some reports say 12 million of them, some reports say as many as 30 million. They are all here with no health check and no criminal background check and according to the PEW Hispanic Center last year, only 7.2 million of them held jobs and that count did not include children and the elderly. Think about what the rest of them are doing for a living.
They could be the ones working under the radar, working for cash, paying no taxes but have a wife, husband, girlfriend, etc. who claims benefits for the many children they have. they could be the ones who are drug trafficking and prostituting, etc.
These are some of the people who marched in the streets of this Nation and flew the flags of their home countries while demanding the rights of citizenship in this country. They are planning another march for May 1, 2008. Maybe they will wake the rest of this country up.
My message for our President who says, "They are here to do jobs Americans won't do." Who do you think did those jobs before they came here illegally? I would say those jobs were done by American workers but at a living wage. The average Americans do not usually live 5 families to a single family dwelling, pay no taxes, get their children's education totally given to them, use the emergency room as their primary source of medical care or get paid cash for their work. The average American just wants a better life for his family too and in many cases, especially in the construction field, bakeries, carpet mills, etc. he has been pushed out by people who are in this country illegally. If he can't speak Spanish, he is told that he can't communicate with the other employees.
I think it is great to be able to speak more than one language but speaking Spanish should not be a requirement to get a blue collar job in the United States of America!
Build the fence high, wide and long. Fine the employers who hire illegal aliens and shut them down for third offenses, take their business license and confiscate their buildings and equipment. Take the vehicles (of course many of them are stolen) of those caught transporting illegals. Emergency medical care only and 9 months carrying a baby is not an emergency!
Speaking of stolen, how many Americans are spending thousands of dollars trying to reclaim their own identities that have been stolen and used by illegal aliens? I guess someone opened a real can of worms with this thread, this is the one subject that I really go off on. Many times when speaking out against illegal immigration, we are called racist and xenophobes. There is nothing racist about expecting our laws to be enforced but if anyone wants to call me names they can, just don't call me complacent!
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exterran
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 06:38 pm |
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You see the conundrum we are caught in. We cannot enjoy our plentiful goods without the cheap laborers who harvest or create them. Any action we choose to take will have an equal reaction. Economics, much like physics exists in a very cause-and-effect environment. What we take from others, we take also from ourselves, be it good or bad.
Perhaps, an analogy would serve well here; if we look at the economy and our immigration issues as a plant, then we should be mindful of what we prune away from it. We need to know where the roots of our economy and our culture lie. Only then can we be sure that we're trimming branches and not roots which provide us the things we need.
We should also be mindful that, unless we are 100% North American Indian, we all immigrated here. We all have contributed to what we have become. The decisions we reach today will create our society's future so we must choose our solutions with care and consideration for all the possible and probable effects.
"A person will worship something, have no doubt about that. We may think our tribute is paid in secret in the dark recesses of our hearts, but it will out. That which dominates our imaginations and our thoughts will determine our lives, and our character. Therefore, it behooves us to be careful what we worship, for what we are worshipping we are becoming." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited on Fri Apr 4th, 2008 06:39 pm by exterran
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Spice
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 06:52 pm |
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exterran wrote: You see the conundrum we are caught in. We cannot enjoy our plentiful goods without the cheap laborers who harvest or create them. Any action we choose to take will have an equal reaction. Economics, much like physics exists in a very cause-and-effect environment. What we take from others, we take also from ourselves, be it good or bad.
Perhaps, an analogy would serve well here; if we look at the economy and our immigration issues as a plant, then we should be mindful of what we prune away from it. We need to know where the roots of our economy and our culture lie. Only then can we be sure that we're trimming branches and not roots which provide us the things we need.
We should also be mindful that, unless we are 100% North American Indian, we all immigrated here. We all have contributed to what we have become. The decisions we reach today will create our society's future so we must choose our solutions with care and consideration for all the possible and probable effects.
"A person will worship something, have no doubt about that. We may think our tribute is paid in secret in the dark recesses of our hearts, but it will out. That which dominates our imaginations and our thoughts will determine our lives, and our character. Therefore, it behooves us to be careful what we worship, for what we are worshipping we are becoming." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
I'm one quarter American Indian. That won't even buy me a cup of coffee in this country, and I have ancestors who came through Ellis Island too. Makes no difference where my ancestors came from over a hundred years ago, I was born here and I am an American citizen. Says so on my birth certificate and passport!
As far as cheaper goods, have you seen anything cheaper? The only thing I have seen says made in Mexico, Honduras, China, India, Taiwan, etc. We still pay more for an automobile, home, food, clothing, etc. than we did a few years ago. Any so called savings from cheap labor is going in the pocket of the builder or manufacturer, not the consumer.
You advocate keeping illegals here for cheap labor, so when enough Americans have been put out of work, no one will be able to buy those "cheap goods" no matter how cheap they are. The government wants to bring trucks in from Mexico to deliver our goods, what does that do to the American trucker who is only trying to feed his family? Only the illegals who are still working and paying no taxes and taking advantage of our government programs will be able to afford to feed their families.
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